About PayPal...

James · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: About PayPal...

Hello!

This is a quick update and a bit of a warning about
PayPal... and huge praise for ClickBank.com!

You may recall I sent you an email about 1 week
ago letting you know that we could no longer accept
payments via PayPal at DownlineSecrets.com.

Well, the verdict is in and PayPal seems to have
something against us Network Marketers or anything
with the words "mlm" "downline" etc. in the title...

This really does not come as a surprise as this is quite
common practice for PayPal.

And I can fully understand their position to "cover their
butts." After all, if they damaged their relationship with
the credit card companies and banks, they'd be out of
business...

Therefore, not allowing full-blown "MLM" or "Multi-Level"
payout sites to use their system as a payment gateway
is perfectly understandable.

But here's what I DO have a HUGE problem with...

Let's start with the crap they pulled with me:

What is being sold at DownlineSecrets.com?

In case you're unsure (paypal certainly doesn't have
a clue) I am offering 2 digital products:

- Product 1:

Elite Membership upgrade which consists of...

Yep, that's right, "Digital Products" (which according to
the PayPal supervisor I spoke with, said is "Ok")

One being a re-brandable PDF manuscript that allows
anyone to include their links for a few popular affiliate
programs such as:

- GDI
- Empowerism
- Track That Ad
- Instant Buzz
- And more...

This way, you build multiple income streams by giving
away 1 PDF for free (working smarter, not harder, has
always appealed to me Wink

)

- Product 2: A stand alone software application
that I had developed based on the very successful
iBuzzIncome.ws recruiting system that I created
for my GDI downline.

This "Digital software" application allows anyone to
set up thier own system like iBuzzIncome.ws to
promote any product or program they happen to
be involved in.

Ok, so what's the problem with my products being
sold via PayPal?

I have no clue as they never "point blank" told me
what was wrong with my site. The used their generic
canned response "It violates our AUP because it's a
MLM type scheme."

Oh really?

Why, because I "teach" about recruiting?

And here is the biggest kick in the pants...

As soon as my account was limited, I thought that
it was simply because of the unusual activity in my
account because of the launch of Downline Secrets.

The reason really didn't matter; I just had to come
up with a new payment processor and quick!

The traffic was unstoppable and I didn't have an
order button on the site for over 24 hours - that hurt
not only me, but my partners who were promoting
the site.

So I ended up going with ClickBank.com since my
product is digital in nature and that's all they allow
us to sell with their service (which is fantastic and
I'll get to that in a minute.)

Minutes after implementing a ClickBank order link
on the site, sales started to resume. What a relief!

I "thought" I was in the clear... but guess what
happened about 6 days into it?

I know, I thought it couldn't get any worse either.

But it did...

I get an email from ClickBank's security team and
they stated in the email that they don't allow MLM
sites and they needed more info from me.

Hold up.

I have to stop here for 1 second and point something
out... "ClickBank.com wanted more info from me."

PayPal never said or did squat except shut down my
account and lock my funds! Let alone ask me for more
information regarding my site.

So, I picked up the phone and called ClickBank.com
and it "appears" that some "entity" had contacted them
to let them know that I was using the "PayPal option"
in my ClickBank account to accept orders and that was
a "no-no" since my account was limited by PayPal.

Nuts isn't it?

ClickBank on the other hand were the nicest and most
helpful people I have ever dealt with.

The PayPal option is now removed from my ClickBank
account which has not hindered sales one bit...

So Razz

to PayPal!

PayPal doesn't seem to like us "little guys" and they
make our lives hell without any kind of opportunity to
adapt our businesses to comply with "unclear" policies.

I even went as far as contacting them before the launch
to get my site reviewed. Well, that didn't happen and I
was given the run around.

The moral of the story is... if you sell digital goods online,
use ClickBank.com or get a merchant account of your
own.

And due to the fact that we couldn't accept orders for
24 hours, I've decided to let ALL members of Downline
Secrets have one final chance to upgrade their membership
to "Elite" status.

This Friday, April 7th 12 Noon (New York) EST time you
may login to your DownlineSecrets.com member's area
and you will see the Elite offer one last time.

Be sure to have your pop-up blocker turned OFF when
you login on April 7th.

==> http://DownlineSecrets.com/login.php

Live and learn I guess!

Have a great week!

P.S. If you scanned this post without reading it, please
go to the top and read every word Wink

_________________
To Your Success,

- James Grandstaff
"Downline Duplication Specialist"

http://DownlineSecrets.com
http://JamesGrandstaff.com
http://MyProspectingSecrets.com

PedroSardinha · Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 46 Location: Portugal

Congrats for your decision James Smile

Paypal really have some problems with us marketers...

The reason clickbank understand us is that they are just one of the
best programs of the marketing market...

I have checks from clickbank every 15 days from some time now
and never had problems with them...
_________________
Pedro Sardinha

http://pedrosardinha.com

philena30 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 2 Location: IL

Paypal are a*holes. Stormpay is getting there...after the autosurfing mess... and we don't know how long alertpay will be ok.. Egold is still hanging in there, and Greenzap seems to be ok for now. We will see how all this unfolds. Personal... I plan on using Greenzap for awhile.
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bflint · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 1

egold was purchased by paypal this past week. Twisted Evil

bettertext · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 1 Location: Palm Harbor, FL

Paypal is notorious for covering their butts at the expense of merchants. Do a google search for "paypal sucks" and you'll get reams of examples of their callous disregard for small merchants.

Like you say, James, use Clickbank or get your own merchant account (really not that expensive).

- Dan
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Nocturnal · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 1 Location: San Francisco

If it makes you feel any better I just made paypal pay a few cents by clicking the adsense ad. TAKE THAT, PAYPAL. SMALL MARKETERS REVENGE!

But really, I can't even count on my fingers (or toes) the number of times problems like this have come up with PayPal. It's ridiculous, and they'll pay for it in the long run.

Shirl · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 1 Location: Australia

[quote="philena30"]Paypal are a*holes. Stormpay is getting there...after the autosurfing mess... and we don't know how long alertpay will be ok.. Egold is still hanging in there, and Greenzap seems to be ok for now. We will see how all this unfolds. Personal... I plan on using Greenzap for awhile.[/quote]

shirl
Alertpay has three levels.
you can join as a Private account
an intermadiate
and the third level????????

third level it says you can advertise any kind of program and accept payments even adult stuff.

I agree about Paypal though they limited me and I still do not know why.
They just send me round in circles.
I am limited for 181 days.
I am glad I did not give them my Bank account details

wizardcarver · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 2

Su* A*ss Pay Pal.. Evil or Very Mad

relative newbie question,/ recommendations..
what is everyone's opinion of what payment processor to be best to use for _ reoccurring monthly membership payments,
site when finished will have tons of - digital downloads, etc..

Thanks in advance,\ Thee Wiz

ToniMatev · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 1

Hi, this is great, but i could say, just for you Smile

This does not give solution to international users like me. I'm from Macedonia and my country is not supported from ClickBank.

I could see that this service is good and very popular, but, I could not use it. Sad

Are there some other payment processor that accept more countries?
StromPay was one of them, but, it "was".

I'm member of AlertPay, but they don't accept credit cards for adding funds. (they say it is temporary, but it less for few months or more)

I'm member of SFIPay, but they get 10% + $2 for adding funds from credit card. It's too much.

If you have some solution, please help us.

Thank you James for this great service and all information.

Best regards,
Toni Matev
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GaborOlah · Joined: 28 Mar 2006 Posts: 2

Hi Toni,

I'm in the same boat.

Try these:

http://www.2checkout.com

http://www.safepaysolutions.com

Best Regards,
Gabor

ksealjr · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 1

You have to remember that Paypal is part of eBay. eBay has always had the attitude that it is their ball and glove, therefore they make the rules and they can change them whenever they want to.

Right now, we are limited in the players who can and/or will handle our online payments. Paypal is still the only player for recurring payments. Make sure that the payment is for one item, with no possibility of being seen as MLM. That means that everything you have related to the payment is as clean as the room where they assemble hard drives. That is a pain, but it is also reality. Wishing will not make it different.

In the case of James's 2 items, just reading the post I can get a faint smell of MLM/Downline. (I am not saying that they are, just that there is a faint smell of smoke, and in todays environment that means fire, no matter what.) That is all it takes, especially since the Stormpay situation, and since the Feds got involved in an investigation of Paypal several years ago.

Is it right? NO. Can we do anything about it? I don't think so. Remember their ball & glove their rules.
_________________
Ken Seal

bluedolphincrow · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 1 Location: Ohio

Aanii James and Trinette

Thank you for keeping us all up to date on the paypal matter. It is really helpful to everyone to know what has taken place.

Glad you are with clickbank which I prefer myself.

Much success to you both
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Blessings,
Bluedolphin Crow

successcoach · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 5

PedroSardinha · Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 46 Location: Portugal

philena30 · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 2 Location: IL

I think greenzap has no boundaries. http://philena.greenzap.it I'm still a free member. I plan on using it just as a payment processor, and not really a business, my upline has been pushing about going gold... but I just want to be a merchant.
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